Lack of digital infrastructure makes it difficult to pull people out of poverty: Amitabh Kant

A: The taskforce has had several meetings. The important thing to realise is that there is a vacuum in the governance of digital public infrastructure (DPI). Most innovation in the last two decades have come through big tech, in western part of the world it has come through Apple, Meta, Microsoft and Google. In China it has come through Tencent and Alibaba.

What India did was to create an alternative, which was based on public interest as a public layer, and on top of which we allowed private sector to innovate and compete. And therefore we built on open source, open API's, we built on interoperability, and that led to digital identity, it led to bank accounts, it led to fast payments, it led to innovation through Diksha and SWAYAM in education, it led to Digi Locker, it led to startups providing paperless cashless credit. Other startups started doing a wealth creation taking stock markets to tier-II, tier-III cities. And then we had many startups doing cashless paperless insurance. So we believe that this is the first time that a developing nation has come up with a technological solution, which really will be critical for the world. Because you can technologically pole vault, you can really bring in greater level of financial inclusion, you can actually build up identity banking, fast payments through the digital public infrastructure.

The challenge is that there is no governance structure on that. There was a lack of a definition of DPI, though the first DPI's really started with the Internet but there is no definition as of now. So the G20s aim was to really first say that there is something called a digital public infrastructure, define it, standardise it, and then built up an international architecture for its governance. A lot of that work has been done during the course of India's presidency. But more than anything else, what India has done is to evangelise DPI through the year, we've held a host of workshops, we've held a host of seminars, we've evangelised it to an extent where everybody accepts that this is truly the future of the world. The digital public infrastructure is the alternative model, which the world must take forward.

A: What we have tried to do through the course of the year is the basic acceptance that there is something called digital public infrastructure, which is based on open source, open API, interoperability, lay down some principles, have the high level principles of it defined, take them forward. That is what the Digital Economy Working Group, which is actually meeting at present will be doing, and the ministerial level will be doing and taking it forward.

I think, we've done a lot of...huge amount of work through the year on this. And I think we will be successful in getting a definition out, we will be successful in laying down the broad principles and laying down broadly an architecture which will enable us to lay down the international governance and financing of digital public infrastructure.

Financing also is critical, because it's important to understand that there are four billion people in the world who do not have a digital identity, there are two and a half billion people who do not have a bank account and there are 133 countries in the world, which do not have even fast payments. So if you do not have this, then it's very difficult to lift people above poverty line and it's very difficult to do direct benefit transfers, which India was able to do during the COVID-19...we were able to put money into the bank accounts of 800 million people straight away.

For the global South, which is India's priority, it is very important that we are able to do this. And that is what we will be doing during the course of our presidency. We have done this very effectively throughout, we will crystallise it, finalise it, and spearhead it during the course of our presidency.

A: So it would be premature for me because the ministerial meeting is going on right now. And then it will come to the Sherpa track, and then it will go finally, to the leaders. But the important thing is that there is a broad understanding between all countries that DPIs are important. Though all the G7 countries- Europe, America, Russia, everybody accepts that DPI is the way forward and that is important for us. There is a broad acceptance that DPIs have to be based on open source, open API's and interoperability, there is a broad acceptance, and therefore, we would we will take this forward. But the element of DPIs have got reflected in various other working groups as well. For instance, in the health track, there's been a lot of discussion on how DPIs can be utilised for improvement of health outcomes.

In the development working groups, we've used data for governance and how data can be used in a very big and a very powerful manner to improve the sustainable development goals (SDGs) very effectively. And we've also seen very powerfully, the implementation of DPIs in agriculture sector, so how digitisation and the use of data can be a very big driver of change and transformation in the agriculture sector.

So DPI really cuts across, and in the case of financial inclusion, it comes in the finance track. So what we've seen is DPI has cut through all the Sherpa track, it cuts through finance track, and it has become the center of technological transformation and digital public infrastructure is one of our key priorities and DPI figures very prominently in them.

A: So you've seen a lot of work on this being done through MOSIP and IIIT Bangalore, you've seen a lot of this work, innovation happening through our development finance, and we've tried to work on several fronts and taking forward the MOSIP framework to several countries of the global South. In fact, a large number of countries from the global South have come and innovated with MOSIP so that they can straightaway take digital identity which can be adapted to their country.

You've also seen a vast number of countries utilising fast payments of India UPI and linking it up to their payment system very effectively. So what we've seen during the G20 presidency is a scaling up of our ambition, and our ability to take our learnings to many other countries. And we will continue to scale that up, as I said that 133 countries require fast payments in the world, we will continue to scale that up very vigorously. And I think what we would require as an alliance where resources can be put in which many other countries, including IMF and World Bank are keen to do, some of that solution we will find during our presidency, but we'll continue to pursue this as an aggressive agenda throughout G20 in future as well, so that the digital public infrastructure becomes a reality for the world of tomorrow.

A: So one is that it's important to understand that in DPIs, both the public and the private play a key role. In India, a lot of innovation and competition in the marketplace has come from the private sector. So private sector has a very critical play. The public sector comes in only as far as the public interest component is concerned. And on top of that public interest layer, private sector competes. So without the private sector, you would not have had stock markets reaching the rural areas and tier-II, tier-III cities, you would not have seen insurance, you would not have seen credit flow in a big way, nor would you have seen fast payments to this extent where PhonePe competes with Google Pay and WhatsApp competes with Paytm. So you've seen a whole range of new startups emerging, you've seen Zerodha, Upstox, Groww, you've seen Go Digit, Acko, all these are companies which could grow, they became national assets on the back of the public interest layer that India had built up. And I think that is the strategy which every other country will need to work on, that build the public interest layer on top of which private sector competes. That's important. But the basic principles of that is and which needs to be accepted- the architecture of the digital public infrastructure is what you will see getting accepted during the course of our G20 presidency, that's important.

Second is about building an alliance on which work is still going on, on whether this needs to be driven by a range of companies or whether it needs to be driven by international financial institution, that is what we are trying to configure and we'll take it forward in the coming years.

A: Some of these issues will be discussed during the Digital Economy Working Group ministerial meeting, which is presently on right now.

A: Some of these issues which CAG has raised have been responded to by the then CEO in an article today in Times of India, and I think you should read that to figure out that a lot of institutional measures were in place for that, and I don't want to get into that issue. But the important issue to my mind is, that there are two critical challenges for the world- one is, cyber security will play a key role and therefore there have to be principles of cyber security, which need to be accepted across G20 countries, which is critical. Second is that, increasingly, you'll see a lot of convergence of artificial intelligence with digital public infrastructure as you've seen increasingly you will have local languages being used to raise queries and respond to them and getting an immediate answer on which government scheme will be best suited for a beneficiary in, say, the rural areas of Bihar or the rural area of Orissa, and so on. So I think the future really lies in building up cyber security to a great extent, and also the use of artificial intelligence, which to my mind will be very critical, because AI will provide a lot of ability to technologically leapfrog for the benefit of our citizens in rural areas.

A: The issue of AI will definitely come at the leaders level, because this is an important issue in terms of generative AI, in terms of regulation, in terms of its evolution. So some of these issues will come up for discussion before the leaders as well.

A: So we are in the process of negotiating the leaders declaration, which is a very challenging and a tough job. So we do that negotiation from two o'clock in the afternoon and it goes on till late night. Every word, every comma, every full stop, is fought for by different countries. Different countries are at different stages of growth and evolution and therefore on a range of issues including digital transformation, climate, energy, you have to bring everybody along. G20, is about your ability to bring consensus, your ability to take everybody along. And that has been a very exciting, tough, and a hard working area. But I think it's a very fascinating area to work around. The Prime Minister has given us the task to be inclusive, decisive, ambitious and action oriented, and that is what we are trying to do in the New Delhi leaders declaration.

A: For us the focus has been on developmental issues, focus has been on all issues of sustainable development goals of issues of driving strong sustainable growth, inclusive growth as well. Focus has been on technological transformation, on multilateral institutions of 21st century and gender and women empowerment. We've right now put Ukraine on a back burner. That's not an issue of importance, as far as development and growth is concerned, that's not an issue of importance for the global South. We've acted like the voice of the global South. That is an important issue for some countries, but I think we should leave it. I don't think we should bother too much. We should continue to focus on developmental issues at present.

A: We are going to work very hard and we are doing that work, we will bring out the best of India, we will improve our infrastructure, we will ensure security, we will do everything possible. I would only request people living in Delhi to work from home or to move out of Delhi and have a nice holiday outside during the period of 6th September to 9th September, so that there's no traffic breakdown in Delhi during that period and that common citizen is not impacted. But it would be good if they can have a nice holiday during that period so that we can conduct this G20 in a very coordinated and peaceful manner.

A: We are not going to incentivise, we are just going to promote nice holiday for citizens so that they can go and take a break during this period or work from home.