Raghavendra Rathore on what the investment by Italy’s Ermenegildo Zegna and Reliance Brands means for his menswear label

In conversation with Raghavendra Rathore, founder and chief designer, Raghavendra Rathore Jodhpur, and Darshan Mehta, CEO and president, Reliance Brands Limited, on what the collaboration means to the two.

Darshan Mehta: As a company, we are focused on creating value in the fashion and lifestyle space in India. I have always felt that a large slice of the (luxury) consumer’s wardrobe is rooted in the aesthetic sensibilities established by designers in India. Within that segment, I don’t think any gentleman’s wardrobe is complete without a Raghavendra Rathore bandhgala. Also, as Raghu and I discussed the collaboration, our comfort levels with each other’s thinking precipitated this partnership.

Darshan Mehta, CEO and president, Reliance Brands Limited.

Raghavendra Rathore: I think it signals to the industry, in general, the kind of possibilities that exist out there. It doesn’t take just our brand to the next level, but also signals the confidence that the industry has in the designers. The industry, in general, has been reluctant to invest in the fashion segment because it is a difficult segment to understand. I think this (collaboration) changes the perception about what value the fashion segment will hold, in the decades to come.

Darshan Mehta: From the industry operators and investors perspective, you are right. There is a reluctance to take that leap of faith. But even the designers have been reluctant to invite outside investor to the table. I am hoping this is the first of many more (collaborations) to come. Also, the fact that the global leader of men’s luxury fashion, Zegna, is part of this partnership raises the bar to another level. We are looking to have a lot of fun working together. This collaboration will add value to my own shareholders and my colleague, Zegna.

Darshan Mehta: From our point of view, we would like to be a bit of a fly on the wall. Raghu is the driver of the brand; he is the owner. It is for him to understand what Reliance (Brands) and Zegna brings to the table, and have the full freedom to cherry-pick what he wants. I think, fundamentally, the trick is to preserve the soul of the brand and yet re-energise it to constantly create desirability. How do you bring tradition and modernity together? How do you repackage the same soul in a slightly more interesting way? What someone like us brings is wherewithal, standing, infrastructure and access to the table.

Darshan Mehta: I don’t want to talk out of turn, but Zegna opens up a whole vista of possibilities that Raghu can lean on, be it on the sourcing side, be it on the communication side or on the distribution side. More important is the entire learning process. It is one thing to admire a brand from the outside. It is another for Raghu to get into the kitchen and start looking at the secret sauces.

Raghavendra Rathore: I think there is a logical business plan we will follow. We are not looking at suddenly taking a sharp curve because of these moving and changing planes that affect business. The important thing is that the process has begun with a visit to Zegna’s studio to understand how the most expensive and divine fabrics in the world are made. I have spent time understanding what Zegna stands for, its heritage, its backend (operations). We have our own storyboard, and our vision is to make it more contextual for a global audience.

I think it is more of a mind shift. We need to relook and readapt the vision and bring (Zegna’s) values to my design team. As a designer, the challenge is to create a product that is more global and find new communication channels. We will take small steps rather than say, open stores or expand retail. There is no doubt that we will benefit from Zegna’s knowledge-base and technical know-how. I generally deal with the colours and textures and the mood boards, but now, I will be equally involved in what my quarter endings are like.

Raghavendra Rathore: While there is a good business team in place, we need to set a template, a benchmark, for the younger generation, for the designers. Everything we do now, we are ensuring that we document (the process). The important thing is that all these values and changes need to translate into (benefits) for the consumer. The biggest challenge, we feel, is to inculcate the values of a brand like Zegna, which has a successful business model, so that we also develop an international coterie of clients.

Raghavendra Rathore: The temptation (to do so) could lead to a fiasco. Taj Mahal is a good example — I keep going back to it when my design team wants to make changes in the brand DNA. I tell them that people come to see (a monument) that is flawless. The core cannot change; it will be difficult for our consumers to understand that change. But the excess can change to make it (the brand) more accessible to a wider audience.

There is a huge gap in the market where luxury street shopping is concerned and all brands are struggling with that aspect. We are talking to a lot of people investing in luxury malls to understand the prospect of being in malls where the experience will be a luxury one.

Darshan Mehta: The biggest thing that has changed luxury (segment) is the declassification.

Darshan Mehta: I think the segmentation is a very FMCG kind of misplaced definition. It is more psychographic than demographic. And the same psychographic consumer may be a luxury consumer in certain mind state and on certain occasions. And at other times, he could be a high-street brand consumer.

Every day, with the clothes we wear, we are role playing. That role play changes with your mindset. There are no defined luxury consumers, unlike in the olden days when luxury was a very class thing, to be consumed by the aristocrats and the elite.

Raghavendra Rathore: I believe the consumers I have been dressing for the last two decades have always existed. A man who drives a jeep and goes to a lake in a jungle outside Jodhpur, to sit under a beautiful sky and enjoy a moment with his family. That was his idea of luxury. I think that consumer shops differently, his behavior pattern is different. The problem may be that he could not connect to the product. Luckily, we have had access to that customer; when you are in the bespoke business, you just pick up the phone and get an appointment.

It would mislead people to say that luxury is changing. It is not. It is the same customers and their children, who have grown to be like their fathers. They are open to the possibilities of spending on products that are very exclusive. Designers need to change and evolve. The evolution of the products need to be very clearly defined.

In the bespoke segment, a consumer in China and a consumer in India thinks differently. That’s what makes a bespoke brand more versatile. You can change an idea you had six months ago. The budgets are much more flexible. Using consumer behaviour, we can understand their thought process.

Raghavendra Rathore: We had some discussions about this, but we need to work on the ready-to-wear idea. The first step is to grow the home base of your customers and have a repetitive behaviour pattern. The product that we make doesn’t require someone to come back very soon. So, we need to decrease the time gap between when consumers come back to us for the next purchase.

Darshan Mehta: if I add to that, the world is going in the opposite direction. If not bespoke, at least there is more customisation. You can go online and design your pair of Nike shoes, choose the colour, the laces, and it will still be a $20 shoe. Down centuries, India has had a culture of bespoke tailors. Menswear, in fact, indulged in more luxury buying because women wore what is typically a non-tailored product, which is a saree. The luxury in that case lay in the weaving of the textiles rather than the fitting of the garment. In menswear, it was always about the fitting. And the combination of the luxury of craftsmanship and the luxury of the textile.

Historically, rich men have had tailors coming to their doorstep. I think a lot of the beauty of the Raghavendra Rathore Jodhpur brand is that it already is a bespoke model; now we need to scale that up.

Raghavendra Rathore: Think about when you order a Ferrari at its outlet, and there are a lot of them on display. You want the seats to be in a particular colour, the dashboard to look a particular way. At Raghavendra Rathore Jodhpur we have the basic line and the latest collection. Then we have fabrics. We have to make sure that we cater to every kind of aesthetics. My tweeds sell very well even in this weather. I don’t question people’s choices. The intent is that I offer the best service experience possible. We have designers who sit in on meetings and understand what the customer is looking for. It simplifies the process if they know what they want. We calibrate according to their desire.

Darshan Mehta: Raghu has insights into his consumer base and what is the correct way to take the communication forward with them, rather than create a mass following online, which is what a lot of others are doing. The fact that every facet of our lives is increasingly controlled by our mobile phones, is now a given. Globally, more than half the spends happen in the digital space.

But within that, what are the tools and what are the levers? What can boomerang and what can create more stickiness; I am learning that. And, hopefully, in a clever way I will use those learnings for some of our other portfolio brands!

Raghavendra Rathore: The process (of luxury buying) needs people to feel and touch the product. When someone picks up one product, it could lead them to buy other products too. Once the shirt comes, logically it is followed by the breeches, and then the accessories. Contact is very important in this business, so our business model cannot be fully successful in the social media realm. The data that flows in from the seven stores we have, is a good indicator of what (product) moves. The day we go fully digital, our business will be impacted. The way to go is to maintain this momentum and build another structure where we can have shirts and other fast-moving items like scarves and pocket squares online.

Darshan Mehta: I have a very different perception. We are stuck in this very obsolete perception of e-commerce. Shirt, shirt, shirt; bag, bag, bag; tie, tie, tie (displayed on the home page). The second step, go deeper into the product category. And the third step, pay and check-out. I think one of the key elements of luxury is storytelling. And I think the digital space offers a huge vista to craft that storytelling. Raghavendra Rathore as a brand is a message. The message is as powerful as the messenger. The good old days, when there was no digital space, most brands have been hostage to how that message was delivered.

The digital space offers, in a very luxurious way, opportunities to craft that message. Buying a luxury product is not an impulse purchase. It is a journey and experience. And it is going to be consumed in an offline-online combined way. Apart from touch and feel, ultimately, buying a Raghavendra Rathore bandhgala is no different than staying at The Oberoi Amarvilas. You carry back memories. And that memory cannot be delivered online. But the digital space can be used to build a community, craft a story. Anyone who can talk about these two channels as separate or binary is getting it wrong.

Raghavendra Rathore: I often look back at what 1920s did for India. It was (the decade with) pretty much the highest consumption of luxury. My vision is to look back, repackage (the luxury heritage), and make it more democratic and global.

If you ask me in the next 10 years, where do you see the brand, I would say there is a product that moves at a faster pace, and a product that moves in its own space. Our faith in what we are doing is not going to be deterred by logic, because logic changes. There are so many disruptors that you don’t know whether things are going to go in your favour or not. We are willing to keep to our faith.