Hello and welcome, you are tuned in to a special edition of the Climate Clock Podcast, with a different setup. We are kickstarting climate conversations and what can be done at the individual level. This is a show where we will talk about what the government can do and what corporates can do to fight the climate change menace. Today I have with me Aakash Ranison, who recently authored a book called, ‘I’m A Climate Optimist’. So let us talk about that in detail.
Ranison is a sustainable traveler as well and has won plenty of awards in sustainable conversations and actions. Akash it is a pleasure to have you with us on CNBC-TV18.com and very excited to talk about your book, and certain ways in which all of us can contribute to help reduce pollution, as there' aren't too many solutions for that, right?
Q: People call you an activist, but you've clarified that you are an optimist. What's the difference and what do you talk about in the book?
A: Thank you for calling me onboard. It's a pleasure to be here with you and talking about this. Why I call myself an optimist and not an activist, is because earlier, I really thought that I am an activist, I started learning more about climate change, but then I started having anxiety about it. Because I was looking in a direction where I really wanted to fight, which is a different thing versus when you want to resolve something, right? And that's when I really read a lot of philosophy that how can I really approach my problem, which is in this case is climate change and how can I really have other people join me on it in a positive way and look towards the solution. And that's when this optimistic perspective developed in my - let's say fight towards climate change.
That's when I thought, okay, can I have everyone with me in a very positive way, fighting this problem, rather than being out there shouting, and that consumes a lot of energy. I feel that personally, I'm not saying that activism is wrong, it is just that I do not have that sort of energy. Hence, I am a more relaxed, optimistic positive person talking, focusing on solutions.
Q: You talk about optimism as your idea of getting a solution for climate change. What do you have to make of the activist globally, who are throwing oil on paintings, who are throwing fruits on painting, do you think that is a way to fight the system or you have to be in this system to solve this problem?
A: I’d say, Both ways. It's never one way. When they do this thing they create pressure, they build up pressure on companies, on policymakers, on administration, governments, and politicians. And that is when they feel like, okay, we really need to do something, it's just they don't want to go back and talk to these activists because they are somewhere angry with them. Also, the ego clash that okay, now you have done this, and we don't want to talk to you. So, they would go and talk to someone else and they will make some change, because it builds pressure.
Saying this is not right would be going against my idol Shaheed Bhagat Singh as well, he did go to the assembly, and he did drop a bomb there. By doing so, he built pressure and that helped in the fight towards independence. So, I won't say it's wrong, it's in a way good. Whatever we do, it's good as of now because we need to reach the target and obviously, I won't ever stand against my fellow climate activist, optimist, whatever we call it in this way, we both want to achieve the same thing. It's just I have chosen a different way of communicating this thing.
Q: There have been a lot of warnings, they said that it is too late to talk about the fight against climate change. But you are still optimistic. So, when we talk about that, I was just quoting some data from your book. A study suggested that those aged between 16 and 25 years of age, (59 percent) were worried about climate change. While 84 percent were moderately worried and over 50 percent experienced sadness, anxiety, anger, helplessness, and even guilt. Around 39 percent were hesitant to have children where we are seeing rapid climate change. Do you think this age group is only worrying or they are taking action at an individual level? You have done a lot of research here. What does it suggest?
A: See people are making changes in their personal life and are trying to look into things like which industry can I really look forward to work in and accordingly they are choosing courses for higher studies. So that's for sure there. And I know people personally who sort of like take this pledge that we don't want to have a child because it's one of the biggest carbon footprints one can generate. And the way we are moving ahead, Earth is running out of resources to let us say feed us all.
Like last year, we had this day when we ran out of our resources in December, in 2023, we already saw that in August, so Earth is not able to produce that much food for all of us to survive. And I don't know where we are going with this rapid growth in population. And that obviously means more people, more consumption, more emission, and we are doing nothing to offset it.
I think it's one of the good things to look at, do we really want to bring more people on Earth when we are not able to survive?
Q: Do you think population is an anti-solution to the problem of pollution?
A: Again, I am putting in a very simple way. My whole work is about simplifying climate change. So simply saying, let's say, you are a person, let's say I am giving you a name "Amit". Amit is a person who goes to work and make Rs 1 lakh a month. How much can you really afford in Rs 1 lakh, you have to pay your rent, or EMI of the house, car, you have to pay for fuel, food clothing. And then you are, let's say, married, so you are two people now. Let's say your wife works and she's earning Rs 1 lakh a month as well. But again, with Rs 2 lakh what all are you planning to afford two cars, or a home and one kid, two children, 3 kids how many kids? Schools are expensive. So that's what I'm saying similarly, now Earth also has its limit.
We are not producing that much. And there is limited space where we can grow food to consume, we need to leave spaces out for wildlife. We need to let nature be the way it is. But then we are destroying everything, let us say by putting all these concrete structures, because, we want to have more space for humans to live and it won't really work. Bhutan is an excellent example. Look at them, they have it in the Constitution itself, that 70 percent of the area is always reserved for nature and 30 percent is for humans. What are we doing here?
We are keeping humans in the center right? Money is the center of our all the conversations as of today versus it should be the other way. And I don't think this will lead to a good tomorrow, forget the end.
Q: Those are some interesting points. A lot of people may or may not agree with what you said when it comes to population and maybe the way people consume. But of course, one thing that people would agree is there has to be minimalistic consumption, or they must change the pattern in which they consume certain things. When it comes to that, we are hearing a lot of new words, be it vegan food or be it sustainable food or be it the way you consume food. That is one of your starting chapters in the book as well where you are talking about sustainable food consumption. Usually, this kind of food is considered ‘ameeron ka kahana’ that's what people call it. They say it's inflationary in nature, it is not something that everyone can afford. What is your answer to that? What do you think should be done to consume food sustainably, something that does not pinch everyone's pocket because not everyone can have an avocado daily?
A: So, trust me in life, I've only had avocado once and I was like, why are people even eating it? It's so expensive, and it doesn't taste good. I am like there's no taste. And I'm really this guy who now with God's privilege eats food for the taste of it. I have enough food that I can fill my stomach but with God's blessing, I have enough money as well now that I can look that is good in taste. But I come from a lower-middle class family. My mom was the only person working at a jewelry shop making Rs 9,500 a month to pay my school fee, rent and everything and then food as well. What do you think we would eat normal roti, sabji and dal, that's it. I love that food today as well.
Even if I am eating out, I am looking for the same food that I can eat. And this what I said is vegan. All the greens are vegan automatically and again, I don't really like to call it vegan. In the book I am not sure you would find the word vegan, you would read the word, plant based. So, I'm not saying go vegan. I am saying go plant based. Like whichever diet you follow, you have planted it and I am saying can you stick to it. And again, I am not an extremist. I am not asking everyone to go vegan and I never asked people to go vegan or go on a plant-based diet.
I put things out, I suggest people can choose what they want to do. Extremism from any direction is not good. If I asked everyone to start consuming that one brand that okay buy from this specific brand for this specific material that thing will become unsustainable. That's what people don't understand. Let's say give me an example for textile. People think that okay, what is sustainable textile? Let me find Bamboo material wear a T-shirt and then they start buying 1,000 pieces of it and wear it everyday, I am like okay, that's a game you're making this industry unsustainable.
Now let's say we start cutting down forests, start planting bamboo as we need it now. That's what we are doing again in food with palm oil. To say palm oil is plant based then you will say is palm oil sustainable. And I have seen one video on this American channel, where this host was trying to bully a vegan activist, plant-based activist for talking about veganism. And he was pulling the point on avocadoes. But what I'm saying is that the consumption of this product can make it unsustainable, and they need to look into it that anything after a limit becomes unsustainable. It's not about green, it not about anything, it's about a balanced diet.
Q: So that is exactly what I wanted to ask because I didn't say you use the word in your book, I meant people use this fancy word nowadays. And to tell them that, okay, you can eat something in moderation, or at least have a minimalistic lifestyle and that would be good for you. Because people, just because they think they have enough resources, they use it in a certain way. So that's about plant-based eating that you spoke about. The next thing that you spoke about was textiles, which you briefly mentioned right now, as well. An average customer bought 60 percent more clothing in 2014 compared to 2000. Each garment was half as long. That's again, a quote from your book. You use the word wardrobe detox in your book as well. What does that mean?
A: So earlier, we did not have avenues to go every day, we would live a normal basic life, if you are in school, you have a uniform, you repeat it, you come back home, you wear normal home clothes, or let us say if you are in college, you do similar sort of thing, or you have a set of clothes, which you can go for college, and then you wear again, home clothes. If you are in office, you do the same, you create like a set of uniforms, which you repeat in your office as well, even if they don't have a uniform. Now, let's say there are functions, so you have like five, six pairs of clothes, you repeat them all the time you are going for functions and like how many functions there are. Not really many in a year, let's say we would have 10 festivals, or 10 marriages so 20, right. So, you would have 10 pairs of clothes, which you can like, wear and that's keeping good or even if you are like super fancy, you would have like 50 pairs of clothes.
But now, today's time, and again, only these 50 times when everyone was looking at you and taking pictures. But now, every day is a picture. Because there's social media and you are connected to everyone, everyone can look at you every day and now you don't want to repeat it. Earlier, people were looking at you for 50 days. Or if you're really the social person and you're really like the party goer, or the talk of the town you would have let's say 100 dresses. But now you need 365 or more than that because you wore something in the morning an event and now there is another event in the evening and morning had the tropical vibe, now this is more of a corporate vibe, so you need to change it according to breakfast, for brunch and for something else.
So, because of social media and because of our phones being sold with this possibility of clicking amazing pictures now if you look each phone comes with this possibility of these many megapixels and this beautiful colour range and pictures. What are we clicking pictures of we want to look good for the picture, we don't know who's going to click a picture, everything is on social media. So now every time we need to look good, and to look good, the easiest thing one of them is to wear different clothes. And also, now when brand knows that, okay, this is happening, they need to be ready as well. There are brands I don't want to name on this podcast as of now, but they come out with one collection every week, 52-weeks 52-collections every year. And then there are brands who put out their collection and if it's not sold 100 percent rest of the clothes which are not sold, they can be sold to anyone else at a discounted rate or can’t be sold to another third-party company to be sold to people at a cheaper rate.
They will have to be burned because they want to maintain the brand image, that okay, our clothes are the best one. They are always 100 percent sold out they are so much in demand. So, you see how much of waste we create. I did end up on a real note in Sarojini in Delhi and I was walking around, and I was really, like shocked to see that how is it a piece of cloth, like full set like a girl's full set suit and salwar was available for Rs 200 I am like, how is it possible?
And out of curiosity, I went to ask this guy because I was thinking it's an amazing idea to cover, and I would love to cover like how this happens. And I asked this guy how is it that it's for Rs 200, he said, and it's not cheap, you have so much money, so you feel it's cheap. For us Rs 200 is big and that really gave me like setback that yeah, that's true. I have the privilege of having so much money. But then now to understand there so much waste we create, which is eventually thank God that there's a market who is consuming it. But then also there's market where these sorts of clothes end up in a landfill right or they end up in a water body. So, it's happening and when it comes to wardrobe detox it is this only that we need to sit back, look at it that what are we doing?
It's a trap. Outfit of the day (OOTD), I always get confused with the short form of it's, I have to say the full thing and get to the short form. So yeah, OOTD it's a trend. Even with veganism it became like a trend fad diet and that's when it becomes a problem. Because if you're following a trend, then everybody must follow the exact same thing.
Q: And that becomes unsustainable because you are using that one resource. So, does that mean social media you spoke about your social media journey as well? Because you've been able to reach out to people via social media, via internet, you said it's important for your career and for your life as well. While you have been using it positively, not everyone would be right. So, do you think social media has been enough done by the influencers as well? Of course, that's not that's not something related to what you do? But generally, would you say that social media has had its pros and cons when it comes to sustainable living or sustainable fashion for that matter?
A: So, I can put it in two different sections. First is it's more of philosophical that you need to see that are you running the social media or is the social media running you. Most of the time it is social media running you because we don't have control of our own life. We easily get dragged whatever we see. This movie came out everyone is watching; I need to watch it. You don't even like it. There's this one scientific movie recently launched most of the people who went to watch it under pressure, they will come out saying that okay, I didn't understand it. It's not a good movie. I am like the movie is good. You are not the right audience for it. Don't watch it. Everybody does not have to watch it but we have to now watch it under pressure because we have to put up a story on one on the platform saying that okay, I finally watched it, it's tick. So that is one thing another when it comes to social media influencers how they put out thing.
Even ministries have launched as a declaration out there, alerts out there saying that okay, do not follow these influencers, they are putting out things which are not genuinely true. Because to become an influencer, you don't need a degree, there is no certification, there is no association where we have to go apply.
Whatever platform we talk about X, Y, Z, whichever platform it is, where you go and start becoming an influencer, they don't even look at you. If you go to a company and work wherever the position where you sit today, to talk to me on this subject there are people who can ask you questions and confirm that you deserve to be here. Similarly, when I wanted to come out with this piece of book and share these details, I made sure that do I have other stakeholders from specific industries to confirm what I am saying. I need to first of all also share about what I am doing then and then I had different people who cross checked it or the publication made sure.
But on social media, you can say whatever you feel like you can decide what is unsustainable, you can decide what is sustainable, you can give a brand a tick, tick mark of your brand value, like I create my brand value of one lakh people and they trust me. Now I can just take money from someone and sell my authenticity to this brand saying that okay, they are sustainable. So that's where it goes. And also, that in major the social media, people end up just talking about plastic, bamboo toothbrush, and like upper level of clothes, I am wearing this cloth again and again, I don't buy a plastic bottle and I use bamboo toothbrush. I am sustainable guys and you all should be.
But they don't understand the consumption they have, the car they drive, they go to plastic pickup drives on beaches in a fossil fuel car. I am like it was better that you didn't drive to this place this way you are emitting more carbon emission. And you are just buying this show social media brownie or currency like people will like me, they will talk about me that I am such a good person.
Q: So sustainability as a word is misused. Everyone's claiming to be ecofriendly when beneath the surface, it's a very different thing. We spoke about social media, we spoke about textiles, one thing that you've been doing sustainably since 2014 I believe or 2015 your first trip to Ladakh, and that's when it dawned on you that okay, this is something that I need to take up. A lot of our audience is also GenZ the next generation which is seeing the anxiety or which is the activist part of the society as well- some things that you would tell them because travel is also a fad right now, some things that they should keep in mind or you would suggest that you've suggested in your book as well, they should keep in mind while they are traveling?
A: The biggest problem with most of the people around the globe, not only our country everywhere I feel is lack of knowledge. And we are influenced, right? We are not doing things because we want to do, we are doing things because we saw somebody else doing it and now, we want to do it. That's wrong. Then you won't do the right thing. Everyone wanted to be an engineer at a point in time because we know someone who is doing it hence, I should do it too. And then you are not doing the right thing for yourself. Forget about nature, environment, and everything- when it comes to travel, we want to go to the place where this other influencer we know went. We saw people going to Manali, so I want to go to Manali. I personally wouldn't want to go to Manali. Manali is fully crowded, it's filled with people. Manali is a very good spot to reach and then see now where I finally want to go. And I'm not saying Manali, nobody should go. People who really feel that Manali is the place for them, they should go. For example, let's say another one is Goa.
Most of the people who end up over there come with the feedback, I didn't really enjoy it. It was too expensive for me. So I'm just giving two examples. But when it comes to people, first, they really need to know where they really want to go. What is their calling for? Also, they need to first understand the meaning of travel, travel doesn't mean going, taking selfies and coming back. That's where again, it's going wrong- as soon as you reach over there, all you want to do is go to 10 places and take pictures and come back.
What is travel for me? If I'm going to the mountains, I really want to go there, relax, sit, enjoy the wind, really look at the mountains be at the riverfront, and relax. Because the peace available over there is not here in the city. So, I want to live the life, the way people live over there, their culture, what they eat, how they talk to each other, what kind of dress they wear, what culture do they follow and again, what good I can pick from there. When I landed up in Spiti, and Ladakh, Buddhism really helped me a lot and that's how I became this optimistic person.
Similarly, recently, I was in France. So again, what I really enjoyed was that I could have gone to so many cities in that one country, I decided, no, I want to stick to one place Paris, and then just go to all the places and really learn about it because I really love history and architecture. Also, there are movies, which I've seen, which are based out of the city and I said, I'm just going to stick to this one city for 10-20 days, whatever I have, and just enjoy this. If you go to my Instagram profile, there's only one content piece from that whole 15-20 days and I'm like, I don't feel like putting out the content, because I just enjoyed. Most of the time, I was just sitting relaxing and enjoying the city rather than creating content. So now, it was more like, we went and clicked a picture but now it's like, we want to go there to click a picture. I'm like, are we even traveling? No, we are on an assignment to go and click a picture and say we traveled. No, you didn't travel, you went there on assignment for all of us to show that you travelled.
Q: Last few tips because you've been on a sustainable journey for a long time. What are some of the things that Akash does daily, which are very simple, but can be easiest to lead a sustainable life?
A: So, every day, I look pretty decent, top to bottom, but I just have a very limited wardrobe because I want to travel so much I have to be light. I hardly have like five to six t-shirts, or two pair of cargos whatever we call them these bottoms, and one pair of shoes. That's it, right? And that's my whole wardrobe and every day I look good.
You look good when you decide. Whenever I'm clicking a picture with someone, I just feel that I'm looking good, I don't want to get back into it that okay let's click another picture. You must accept you're looking good. And for me also I don't want to be judged on the kind of clothes I wear. For people I understand who are in the business of fashion, but everybody does not have to become a fashion influencer. And this is one thing people can do, they have to have confidence they have to feel good about themselves rather than waiting for validation from people. So cut down on your textile consumption.
Another one I would say is your diet. What can you do about it? Think about it. I'm not saying that become a plant-based person right away. Look into it and with your own conscious self, decide that okay, I want to have a balanced diet. I want to decide one day, let's say it can be Friday, Saturday, Sunday, one day that this day I try vegan or let's say plant based. We can have a cheat day as well and similarly, we can have a day where I want to try veganism or plant based and I'm not saying next day do not eat, eat, go back to it, so that you can balance it out.
Next one, I would say there are so many alternatives now available for your plastic consumption, that's one thing, a bamboo toothbrush is available, different types of bottles are available. Mostly when people live in a city, they don't even need to buy bottles. Now, even for snacks, what we buy in plastic packaging, there are alternatives coming up, we can try those. These are three basic things. But if you want to go on a little bigger level, obviously you can try the next vehicle, whichever you're buying, look at the possibility of purchasing an electric vehicle.
Again, I know that electric vehicles do come with their own negative points as well. So the bigger, better option if you can do is can you please have solar panels at your factory, home, whichever thing you own if you own it, and if you can afford it, that will be one of the best thing. Like, my mom recently got a new home, because we always lived in a rented apartment, but she was really dreaming it throughout the life to get it. Finally, she has it. And I'm now really trying to I want to get solar panels on this place. But I'm as of now looking at what is our consumption, so I'm trying it for like, three, four months, so that I understand this is your monthly consumption, then we know what sort of solar panel we need which can give the amount of energy we need to run our monthly, whatever things we are doing at mom's home. And that's what I want to do. If I can really replace it, I'm cutting down the cooking gas, and then I'm cutting out electricity wherever I'm fueling it from then if in case now you have an electric vehicle, then it will make sense. Even if it is a two-wheeler, we don't have a car, my mom has a two-wheeler. And then if she can really charge it from solar, then it will make sense. As of now our charging is also coming from non-renewable resources and that's when it's 100 percent not sustainable.
So, these are the few basic things people can look at changing gradually. I've given basic, just don't buy more clothes, to food, or to you can even go to buy solar panel suggestions for your home.
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